GHF-E106-R33 — Amgueddfa Cymru reply to FOI 2026-036 (5 & 7 October 2026): further collections search
Evidence preview
Follow-up reply — 7 October 2026: MS 3360/3 identified more precisely
What this reply establishes
Attachments (the evidence)
The reply came with three PDFs, all relating to Church Farm accession 63.24. Each has its own evidence page with the PDF, a description and an interpretation:
| Catalogue | Type | What it is | |
|---|---|---|---|
| GHF-E106-R33-A1 | Letter | Handwritten letter headed Cogan Pill, 22 November 1931, annotated “File 63.24”: a spearhead and spur found at Llandough Church Farm when digging foundations for new buildings about 1858, with about six skeletons | 63-24 letter.pdf |
| GHF-E106-R33-A2 | Museum collections record | 63.24/1, medieval iron rowel spur (14th–15th century), Llandough Church Farm, 1858; accession 1963.24, donated 8 February 1963 | 63.24.1.pdf |
| GHF-E106-R33-A3 | Museum collections record | 63.24/2, medieval iron spearhead (possibly 15th century), Llandough Church Farm, c. 1858; same accession | 63.24.2.pdf |
This is a substantive follow-up to the earlier Amgueddfa Cymru searches recorded under FOI 2026-024 and FOI 2026-032. The Museum says further enquiries were made with Archaeology, Industry and Social History Collections, building on the earlier searches. 🕒
- Ref 13.2 — Waterwheel from Llandough Farm: collected 1 April 1979; Museum records state that it was donated by Wales and West Housing Association in connection with development of the site. It was never formally accessioned and has subsequently been deaccessioned. 🕒
- MS 3360/3 — 1924 Llandough Estate sale particulars: a photostat copy of the Particulars, Conditions and Plans of the Sale of Nine Well-Known Farms in the Vale of Glamorgan forming part of the Llandough Estate. Collections staff identified a page relating to Great House Farm. The document was already provided under FOI 2026-032. 🕒
- Church Farm reference 63.24: an archaeological accession identified from material retrieved during the FOI 2026-024 searches, with details attached (A1, A2, A3); no further Church Farm records were identified without a new full search. 🕒
- 1875–1915 predecessor registers: no accession record, register entry, day-book entry, donations-book entry or correspondence relating to finds from Great House Farm, Tŷ Mawr or Llandough Farm was identified. 🕒
- Additional Llandough ironwork: no object record was identified beyond material already considered in previous responses; Archaeology Collections says it holds no record of additional ironwork associated with the farmhouse floor, rear wing or dairy. 🕒
On 7 October 2026 Amgueddfa Cymru replied to the follow-up challenge concerning FOI 2026-036. The Museum says it does not hold a separate recorded audit schedule showing, item by item, which search hits staff excluded after reviewing the results. It therefore cannot supply the requested filtered schedule as an existing recorded document.
Catalogue UID: GHF-E106-R33 · Custodian/source copy: open source object. Preview and provenance status as at 10-10-2026.
Description
What the Museum has and has not established
Ref 13.2 — still a different evidential problem
MS 3360/3 — the new location identifiers
Request basis recorded in the file
Question 4 — Llandough ironwork associated with the farmhouse
Question 3 — 1875–1915 accession and predecessor-museum records
Question 2 — Church Farm, Llandough
Location check — which Great House, which Llandough? (added 5 October 2026)
Question 1 — Great House Farm / Tŷ Mawr / Llandough Farm
Question-by-question record
Important evidential qualification
Church Farm, c. 1858 — what the attachments say
Catalogue: GHF-E106-R33
Authority: Amgueddfa Cymru – Museum Wales, FOI Team
Reference: FOI 2026-036
Request: 8 September 2026
Response received: 5 October 2026, 14:04 (UK time), by email from FOI.Requests@museumwales.ac.uk, subject “FW: 2026-036- Great House Farm, Llandough, Cardiff”
Scope: Great House Farm / Tŷ Mawr / Llandough Farm, Llandough (Penarth / Vale of Glamorgan), with a limited Church Farm comparison and predecessor-museum accession records.
Correction, 5 October 2026. An earlier version of this section summarised the attachments second-hand and contained errors (a “school”, “lead and a spring”, “whelks” and reburial at “Bush Hill”). None of these appear in the documents. The summary below is taken from the PDFs themselves; see each evidence page for the full transcript.
The letter of 22 November 1931 (A1) says the spearhead “was found a[t] Llandough Church Farm when digging foundations for some new buildings about 1858”, that the spur was also found, and that about six skeletons “of big men” were found in the same place, buried with many limpet or cockle shells, and were reburied in a large hole near the stile on the south side of the church. “Uncle Eddie” is named as having seen them as a small boy. The two collections records (A2, A3) repeat the letter’s provenance, date the objects to the later medieval period, and record their donation on 8 February 1963 from an address at Cogan Pill, Penarth.
Identity control The Museum’s 63.24 documents name “Llandough Church Farm”, not Great House Farm. That term is therefore source-specific and identity-unresolved. The separate Llandough Farm (opposite hospital) is a different farmstead in the same Llandough near Penarth/Cardiff locality and is never to be treated as an alias, former name, subdivision or nomenclature variant of Great House Farm / Tŷ Mawr. Great House Farm and Llandough Farm remain separate identities unless a primary record expressly connects them. 🕒
Do not overinterpret: “big men”, the shells and the reburial are observations in the 22 November 1931 letter (A1), written about 73 years after the event. They are not, without further analysis, evidence of a particular date, burial custom or relationship to the early-medieval cemetery excavated north of the church in 1994 (Heneb GGATE003875).
The Museum’s answer is a statement about the results of its searches and the records it currently identifies as held. “No such records were identified” is therefore negative search evidence, not proof that the historical ironwork did not exist or that no public-collection record ever existed outside the material searched. Equally, the waterwheel entry is evidence that an object associated with the site was collected by the Museum in 1979 and later deaccessioned; the reply does not state when, how or to whom it was deaccessioned. 🕒
The Museum states that the schedules supplied in FOI 2026-032 contained the records previously identified. The additional enquiries undertaken for this request identified:
| Reference | Title | Date | Description recorded by Amgueddfa Cymru | Which site? (Wiki assessment) |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ref 13.2 | Waterwheel from Llandough Farm | Collected 1 April 1979 | Collected from Llandough Farm; donated by Wales and West Housing Association in connection with development of the site; never formally accessioned; subsequently deaccessioned. | Separate Llandough Farm record. The catalogue says “opposite hospital”. Do not attribute this record to Great House Farm / Tŷ Mawr. |
| MS 3360/3 | Particulars, Conditions and Plans of the Sale of Nine Well-Known Farms in the Vale of Glamorgan forming part of the Llandough Estate | 1924 | Photostat copy. A page relating to “Great House” / Great House Farm was identified. The Museum now records approximately 202 acres, W.G. Thomas & Sons, Parish of Llanfair, and homestead in the Village of Llandough. | Strong Llanfair/Cowbridge indicator; exact attribution still to be proved from the underlying page/plan. The Museum itself does not use “Llandough-juxta-Cowbridge” in this reply. |
The Museum states: “No further records relating specifically to Great House Farm / Ty Mawr / Llandough Farm, Llandough were identified.” 🕒
DescriptionThe Museum searched “Great House Farm / Ty Mawr / Llandough Farm, Llandough” as a single subject and reported both items above under it. The Wiki keeps these names apart, because they are not one place: Great House Farm / Tŷ Mawr is the farmstead beside St Dochdwy’s Church, Llandough-juxta-Penarth (HER farmhouse NGR ST16707335); Llandough Farm is a separate farmstead in the same village, south of the church; and there is a second Llandough — Llandough-juxta-Cowbridge, about 20 km to the west — with its own Great House Farm (and a Great House at neighbouring Llandow). The family raised the Cowbridge homonym with the Museum on 27 September 2026; the Museum replied on 28 September that its records hold no cross-attribution.
InterpretationRef 13.2 (waterwheel). The record says “Llandough Farm”, and that the donor was Wales and West Housing Association “in connection with development of the site” in 1979. The housing development of 1978–79 in Llandough was on Llandough Farm land, where the Roman villa was excavated before building. Great House Farm was not developed in 1979 (Mary (Nancy) Williams still occupied Parcel A until 1983). The waterwheel most likely came from Llandough Farm, not Great House Farm. Status: location unconfirmed; not to be cited as Great House Farm evidence.
MS 3360/3 (1924 sale particulars). The title describes “Nine Well-Known Farms in the Vale of Glamorgan forming part of the Llandough Estate”. Three points tell against this being the Penarth farm: (1) “Llandough Estate” is the usual name of the Llandough Castle estate at Llandough-juxta-Cowbridge, which has a Great House Farm of its own; (2) in 1924 the Penarth farm was in two ownerships — Parcel A with the Thomas family since 1877 and Parcel B with the Bute Estate, which on the 1987 judgment held its reversion until it conveyed to WGR in 1938 — and neither owner was a “Llandough Estate”; (3) no other record seen by the Wiki puts the Penarth farm in a 1924 auction. None of this is proof: the Wiki has not yet examined the page itself. It came as “FOI 2026-032 – 1924.jpeg” in the Museum’s 22 September email (28.5 MB), which could not be retrieved automatically. Status: location unconfirmed. The check, once the image is in hand: parish named on the page, tenant’s name, acreage, and whether the plan shows St Dochdwy’s Church and Leckwith Road.
Not the same event as Mary (Nancy) Williams’s “split”. Mary (Nancy) Williams’s statement describes a division in 1877: the Bute Estate served notice to quit, sold “the farmhouse and buildings and about 10 acres” to Daniel Thomas, and kept “about 9 acres up on the top”; her grandfather then rented from both, and the last rent (about £4) was paid to Alfred Thomas in 1928. She does not mention any 1924 sale. The 1924 particulars, whichever farm they describe, are a different event with a different vendor and must not be merged with the 1877 split. The only 1924 document so far tied to the Penarth title is the agreement of 15 May 1924 recorded on the WA231076 file, whose contents are still unknown (The Two Parcels, 1924/1928 row). 🕒
Rule applied across the Wiki: until the MS 3360/3 page is examined, it is not cited as evidence about Great House Farm, Llandough-juxta-Penarth, or about either parcel; and “Llandough Farm” records are not read as Great House Farm records.
The only record identified from material retrieved during the earlier FOI 2026-024 searches is:
| Reference | Title | Description |
|---|---|---|
| 63.24 | Archaeological accession | Details attached to the Museum’s response: GHF-E106-R33-A1 (1931 letter), GHF-E106-R33-A2 (63.24/1, rowel spur), GHF-E106-R33-A3 (63.24/2, spearhead). |
No further Church Farm records were identified from the material already retrieved. The accession is recorded as three objects; records for two were supplied. 🕒
No accession, register, day-book, donations-book or correspondence record dated 1875–1915 was identified recording ironwork, armour, a visor, a lance, a helmet, “armour from Llandough”, or a find from Great House / Llandough Farm.
The Museum expressly explains that the accession registers maintained by Cardiff Museum are the earliest accession registers of the National Museum of Wales collection; objects held by Cardiff Museum were not re-accessioned when responsibility transferred to the National Museum of Wales, and the accession-number sequence continued uninterrupted. The Museum therefore says its search of the earliest accession registers encompasses the former Cardiff Museum accession records.
No object record was identified for Llandough ironwork not labelled “visor” or “lance” but associated with the farmhouse floor or rear wing / dairy. Archaeology Collections confirmed that it holds no record of additional ironwork from Llandough associated with the farmhouse floor, rear wing or dairy beyond material already considered in previous responses. 🕒
The 8 September request expressly stated that it was a new request, not a repeat of FOI 2026-024 and not a comment on the internal review. It asked for the site-level collections schedule; the limited Church Farm schedule already retrieved; predecessor-museum records for 1875–1915; and any further Llandough ironwork record associated with the farmhouse floor, rear wing or dairy.
The request cited two published statements as the reason for searching predecessor registers: the GGAT assessment of August 1990, which said that medieval ironwork held by the National Museum of Wales was likely discovered under the rear wing c.1880, and Holbrook & Thomas, Medieval Archaeology 49 (2005), p.70 n.142, which stated that medieval ironwork discovered under the rear wing c.1880 was then in the collections of the National Museums & Galleries of Wales. The attachments now supplied (A1–A3) record the Museum’s medieval ironwork from Llandough as found at Church Farm about 1858.
The Museum now gives the following recorded particulars for the page of MS 3360/3 previously supplied under FOI 2026-032: “Great House” formed part of the Llandough Estate sale particulars of 1924; it was occupied by W.G. Thomas & Sons; it comprised approximately 202 acres; it was situated in the Parish of Llanfair; and the homestead was situated in the Village of Llandough. The Museum says no additional recorded information identifying the holding was found.
Wiki assessment: this is substantially stronger location evidence than the earlier catalogue description. It identifies a 1924 Llandough Estate holding of about 202 acres in the Parish of Llanfair, with its homestead in the Village of Llandough. It should therefore no longer be described merely as an unlocated “Great House Farm” hit. At the same time, this reply does not itself say “Llandough-juxta-Penarth” or “Llandough near Cowbridge”. The Wiki therefore records the Museum’s identifiers exactly and does not convert them into a Penarth/Cowbridge attribution without the underlying MS 3360/3 page, plan, or another independent identifier.
The Museum separately describes Ref 13.2 as “Waterwheel from Llandough Farm (opposite hospital)” and says no further location information is recorded. The Wiki therefore continues to keep this separate from the MS 3360/3 “Great House” record. The 7 October reply does not establish that the waterwheel came from Great House Farm/Tŷ Mawr. 🕒
| Record | Recorded location/identity | Wiki status |
|---|---|---|
| MS 3360/3 🕒 | “Great House”; Llandough Estate sale particulars, 1924; W.G. Thomas & Sons; c.202 acres; Parish of Llanfair; homestead in Village of Llandough. 🕒 | New positive identifiers. Exact modern/historical Llandough still to be tied to the underlying page/plan or independent evidence. 🕒 |
| Ref 13.2 🕒 | “Waterwheel from Llandough Farm (opposite hospital)”. 🕒 | Separate and unconfirmed. Not to be treated as Great House Farm evidence. 🕒 |
| Filtered schedule 🕒 | Museum says no separate recorded audit schedule exists. 🕒 | Closed as a records-existence point. The next task is reconstruction from the disclosed hits, not asking the Museum to create a new document. 🕒 |
Research consequence: the 202-acre / Parish of Llanfair / Village of Llandough combination is now a priority identifier for archival and estate research. It should be searched against the 1924 sale particulars, contemporary maps, parish records, estate papers and other independent records before making any claim that this is the Penarth Great House Farm or the Cowbridge/Llandough Great House Farm. 🕒
Response status: substantive clarification received 7 October 2026. The absence of a filtered audit schedule is now recorded as an absence of a held document, rather than as an unanswered request for a document that the Museum says it does not hold. 🕒
Response status: substantive answer received 5 October 2026. An internal review may be requested within 40 working days of that date; after that, the Information Commissioner’s Office. 🕒
See also: FOI & Public-Authority Reply Register · Records Access Chronology · Archaeology and Heritage · Evidence Library 🕒
Transcription
Open transcription
No verbatim transcription is included in this entry as at 10-10-2026. Where the source contains legible text, transcribe it faithfully and mark illegible or uncertain words rather than silently reconstructing them.
Interpretation and wider context
Read this item alongside independently catalogued corroborating and contradictory material. The existence of a record establishes that the item is catalogued; it does not prove every statement within it. Distinguish source content from inference and identify unresolved questions.
Interpretive assessment date: 10-10-2026.
Page version & change log
Current version: 1.0.0
| Version | Date (UTC) | Editor (human or agent name) | Change | Source / evidence |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1.0.0 | 2026-10-18T15:25Z | Tab (for Sion Buckler) | Footer standardised; no content change | Editing Protocol, 18 Oct 2026 |
Agents and editors: follow the Editing Protocol.